SEEDS Regenerative Elder Council Event

Meta agreements & structure

Because of the short notice and time in which we’re doing this process - the organizers @apostol, @twakefield14 and @Aryabhatta are going to decide upon the structure & process of how this event will be held. We will have 2 meetings in the coming week of 16-22 Aug where we will collaborate with everyone who wants to participate in organizing this and consider their ideas and input.

This initial post will hold the official structure of the event and I’ll update it as a result of other people’s feedback and Tyler & Aryabhatta’s agreement.

Following the last conversation in the SEEDS Global Commons working group led by @twakefield14 I want to lay out a vision of how to create a “Regenerative Elder Council” - a half or whole day event that would try to address all the current tensions around the Milestone Conversation and collaboratively come up with a plan of action that is aligned with all the groups that are contributing to the growth and success of SEEDS while holding into their hearts the interest and well-being of the Citizens of SEEDS and the Regenerative Future of Planet Earth.

I propose that this event be held on the day of the August Full Moon - 22nd of Aug - Sunday

The event is not happening due to a low engagement from the proposed participants. We are going to organize a festival-type event probably mid-september or mid-october. Stay tuned for updates.

What’s the purpose of the Regenerative Elder Council?

To allow different groups, fractals and circles to come together, cohere and collaborate towards the common SEEDS goal of helping to preserve and regenerate Planet Earth’s Ecosystems.

What would be the (ideal) outcome of the “Regenerative Elder Council” Gathering?

All the teams, stakeholders and SEEDS citizens holding an updated, mutually agreed upon collective understanding (system) of how to collaborate, play and work together towards our common goals of Researching, Building & Developing the SEEDS Vision(s) towards a more regenerative future for Planet Earth and all the species that live in it.

More concisely

  • A clear new structure for how to govern the Milestone Funds from now on
  • A decision on whether we should keep the Milestone abstraction or drop it for a better one. If keep - a clear definition of what Milestone Goals consists of - possibly with Haurictics and Metics, if not - an agreement on what would the process for the alternative system look like (“Harvest Rounds”?)
  • Clear process of how (DHOs and) Circles Organize and Fund their direct or indirect contributions to the Milestone Goals

Not sure if we should include this, but it’s directly correlated to the issues at hand

  • A better structure for managing the Co-op Proposals funds

Who is in the Regenerative Elder Council?

I propose that the Regenerative Elder Council would have 1 representative from each Circle inside Hypha, Samara, Renaissance Explorers. It would also have representatives and important voices from the SEEDS Ecosystem & (possibly) Regional DHOs.

Not all circles are currently ready to (or may want to) become a DHO in a sense of covering a set of basic requirements for a DHO to function, but they can become part of an existing DHO that can cover these requirements for them.

Proposed List of Participants

It should have a minimal amount of people - no more than 15 but the ideal would be ~10-12.

These are proposed participants. Each circle is able to choose a different person to represent them from the one that’s mentioned here.

If you feel like your circle should be represented here - come to the two meetings next week or let me know via PM and we will consider it.

@twakefield14, @apostol +1~2 people

Expert circle
@Rieki as the main engine of SEEDS
@markflowfarm as the Financial Flow Expert in SEEDS that created the current Tokenomics Doc

Global Representatives Circle would be:

Community Leaders that hold a loud and wise voice in the conversation

Regional Circles representatives?
I’m not sure how to structure that and include them in the process. TBD

  • Kenya
  • Zimbabwe
  • Brazil
  • etc.


All the decisions that are made here will be proposed to the Citizens of the SEEDS Ecosystem to vote upon in the coming cycle.

Each representative holds 1 Voice to vote on proposals, decisions are made in the following manner:

  • 2 Rounds of voting where the decision is made with Consensus

If we cannot make a decision with Consensus we move to

  • 2 Rounds voting where 2/3 + 1 counts as a positive decision and any one person can block

We can discuss this process during the working group that will organize the event in the coming week.

Structure of the event

How will the event unfold? What rounds would it have?

Points of Touch

(Touch can mean both Conflict, Tension and/or Collaboration)

  • Does Hypha need or want payment from Milestone 3 pool? As opposed to just being a participant in the future sale. If yes - what sum of Seeds does Hypha need?
    This is relevant to the question - are the funds that Hypha received so far enough for all the development work that they’ve done so far?
  • As per my sensemaking here. Should we drop the abstraction of a “Milestone” at this moment? If yes - should we implement the abstraction of Harvest Rounds? If no - what are the possible Heuristics and Metrics that we need to be looking at for Milestone 3? What happens if we spend the funds without reaching it & how do we manage the sale process?
  • What is the criteria for participating in the sale? Which of the represented groups are ready to be a DHO? For circles/teams in transition into a DHO - which DHO will they be part of in the meantime that will be responsible for their funding? (presentation from @minos999 based on the structure outlined here)
  • (optional) What is the most healthy structure for the Co-op Campaings so we prevent giving Seeds away to unknown entities or dysfunctional projects? Should we expediently implement the structure outlined in Milestone 3 Proposal (from July 29 meeting) - #12 by markflowfarm?
  • How do we come up with the percentages for how the milestone funds sale is allocated?
    Option 1: “Request” round during the “Elders Council” event - e.g. each organization requests the amount or % they need for the next 3 moon cycles. Then there is a round of reactions & comments. Then there is another “Request” round. Then a Voting Round after that. At the end - the current percentages are proposed to be voted by the Citizens on a Referendum.
    Option 2: Money Pile ritual by Dominic Barter as described by @minos999 in this reply Milestone 3 Proposal (from July 29 meeting) - #11 by minos999
    Option 3: (needs time to develop) Conviction voting system similar to what was presented by the Re-Fi team in this post SIP 1 - Continuous Funding
    Option 4: (needs time to develop) Conviction Voting, but based on projects, not DHO. Role of the DHO would be that only eligible DHOs will be able to put up projects in the Conviction Voting pool.


We can have Opening, Closing and Working Sessions. Each working session will be between 1 and 2 hours and will focus on one of the “Touch Points” outlined above. We will have both ‘position statements’, ‘dialogue’ and ‘voting round(s)’ during one Working Session.

After the DHO structure is agreed upon we can have a Working Session with just 1 representative of a single DHO for determining the % funding. OR we could do this with representatives of each circle and sum the % for the DHOs that they’re part of.

Opening 50-60 mins

Introduction by the Facilitators - 10-15 min.

Check-ins 20-30 mins - each person shares:

  • How they’re personally felling
  • 1-3 statements specifying the current state & mood of the circle they’re representing

Speech by @rieki - 10-15 min

(10 min break)

Working Session 1-2 hours

(Lunch) Break - 1-2 hours

Working Session 1-2 hours

(Afternoon) Break - 30 mins

Working Session 1-2 hours

Closing 30 mins

Next steps

Between the Full Moon and the New Moon, we have 2 weeks to gather all the agreements that we came upon into a new and updated SEEDS Tokenomics (or “Governance”) document and present it to the SEEDS Citizens to vote upon in the coming cycle in Sep.

After working quite a bit on all these topics today I feel the presented challenges are not that hard and it would be extremely productive and beneficial for the SEEDS Ecosystem to have this roundtable and create cohesion between all the fractals.

:pray: :seedling: :rocket: :four_leaf_clover: :evergreen_tree:


Hi Apostol. Thanks for the thorough outline for the proposed meeting. I’m not sure yet if I would be available for a full day meeting on Aug 22nd, and with such a long series of sessions, it will certainly be difficult with all the time zones. I’ll wait to see how the scheduling for this meeting develops.

One point of clarity. I did not create the SEEDS Tokenomics document. It was created before my time, as I was only introduced to SEEDS last summer. I have a good general grasp of the economics for both SEEDS and Hypha, but I always learn more exploring the details. :slight_smile:

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Hi Apostol, thank you for the thorough proposal! I share a couple initial reactions, feedback, and opinions below. I’ll try to make the sensemaking call on this tomorrow.

  1. I’m not sure if “Elder Council” is the right framing for this. You’re talking about core ecosystem operations, finance, and short-med term strategy, not the cultural, spiritual, and ethical wisdom I associate with elders. Also, I’m young and hella ignorant and would feel odd participating under this framing.

The Hypha/SEEDS Regenerative Elder Council Stephen described in discord (Discord) sounded more appropriately framed. I’d love to see that become more public and have Stephen or others clarify whether it will be a SEEDS/Hypha, or SEEDS, or Hypha Council moving forward, as Hypha is undergoing their disentanglement process with SEEDS.

I think we’re talking about a “Summit” or “Conference of DHOs” here… see #2.

  1. Instead of proposing the formation another group (this one being a group of groups), I suggest we simplify and just propose an event, with a very specific invitation criteria, purpose, desired outcomes, and proposed agenda. Folks/groups may not know if they want to join another group, but they may be able to decide if it sounds worth their time to attend an event. Also the more that’s proposed, the more overwhelming it is to read posts like these, so I think focusing on the right invitation we can make creates the simplest path for others to accept.

  2. August 22 feels way too early to have this event properly designed, invited, understood, and attended in a successful way. I’m certainly not comfortable facilitating such an event in that amount of time, and would love if we were able to find a truly detached/neutral facilitator who’s experienced with these sorts of deliberative gatherings of groups. 1 week invites for a full-day event are very tough, so I’m also pessimistic we’d get the meaningful attendance we’re looking for.

More to share later… :pray:

Thanks for clarifying that, Mark! I mistakenly presumed that because you’re on the tokenomics videos, you were the designer of the doc. :pray:

Thanks for your reflections, Tyler. I measure a person’s elderhood on their ability to lead well and make good decisions, not on the grays of their hair (: And I see you as a leader in Samara, that’s why you’re on the list. But I get your point that the framing should probably be better here.

I think this is exactly what I’m proposing here. There is a list of people and the criteria is “being a leader of a circle” or “strong activist”. Also, the intent is for a 1-day event, rather than a new governance structure or “club” that is being built. Maybe I didn’t make that clear enough. Thanks for pointing that out/ I think that such a structure is unnecessary and even counterproductive. But the event is super needed at the moment.

I would love to hear another proposition for how to address all the issues and come up with a new Milestone Proposal or Referendum in time for the next voting cycle. Do you have a better idea?
Also, I understand your challenge about short notice and facilitation and I agree that a neutral facilitator is important to have. However, we don’t have time to find that for the limited time we have until New Moon - when ideally a new referendum or milestone proposal should be put up. And I think the value will be much bigger than the harm. Still - if you don’t want to participate or facilitate or both, let me know and I will remove your name.

There is also the option to do this in 4 days throughout the week instead of a 1 whole day event. Two people already proposed this structure, so I’m considering it. Let’s also see what people bring up on the call tonight.

The event is not happening due to low engagement from the proposed participants. We are going to organize a festival-type event probably mid-september or mid-october that could be a whole day but more focused on visibility, connection and celebration. Stay tuned for updates on that.

Some of the proposed issues in this document are going to be addressed by a working group that is coming up with a new milestone funds allocation mechanism.