Fiat injection methods

I would like to share some “working out loud” thoughts which have become more urgent in the context of rieki’s recent “climate scientist” post .

Let me describe my newbie response to learning about Seeds about 3 months ago; “This is amazing! I want to support it! This is complicated, there is going to be a lot to learn!” It appeared to me at the time that supporting the Regenerative Renaissance meant (a) financially: buy Seeds (and donate some to regenerators), and (b) human effort: find out what I can do with my time and do it.

In retrospect, what was unclear is that buying Seeds from Hypha, by design, is NOT a tool for funding regenerative renaissance actions; it is only intended to pay for development of a currency system. In some sense nothing is changed about supporting actual regenerative activity: the organizations and projects need fiat, and if I am motivated to financially support them I need to dig into my bank account and send them money. This is why we showcase the “plant a tree” model, where the Seeds component piggybacks on a fiat-donation program.

There may be some “magical thinking” in belief that this model is sufficient to channel resources into the Renaissance at the rate we need them. True, the Seeds vision is exciting, an organization gains positive exposure by aligning with Seeds, and that exposure may help them with fiat fundraising. But (a) the message that this is how it was designed to work has definitely not landed effectively on people inspired to write co-op proposals, and (b) I think we have to do better at supporting the rich variety of regenerative proposals that are arising - but which do not match the original founders’ model.

In practice, I believe some campaign runners have been buying back Seeds from their project participants, using their own fiat resources, in order to prime the pump for local Seeds-based economic activity. Important: until circularity develops, somebody has to do it! This works, but IMHO using the campaign runner as a local liquidity source is not generally a good tokenomics model.

I previously shared the idea of a Seeds Charitable Foundation Seeds Charitable Foundation . Here is another idea, only partly formed, which engages more specifically with the tokenomics. The idea is to facilitate donated fiat injection to projects which are using Seeds. This includes but is not limited to “rich country” donors supporting “poor country” projects. Random “spitball” thoughts:

  1. Donors commit to swap seeds for fiat and burn the Seeds (i.e. donor gets no financial return for his/her fiat)
  2. The swapped Seeds must be sourced through a “qualified pathway”, verifiable on the blockchain. A donor might require that the Seeds have been acquired via a goods or service purchase in Seeds currency. For example, a project runner wanting to swap funded Seeds to fiat in order to buy a phone would not qualify. But if he can talk a phone vendor into accepting Seeds for the phone, then the vendor qualifies.
  3. Donors commit to convert at the Hypha sale price for well qualified swaps. There could be a scale here to promote circularity: if the Seeds have passed through at least three transactions between funding and conversion, they get full price; lower rate for one- or two-transaction situations.
  4. To qualify for a donation-swap, the seller of Seeds commits to provide information not only about how the seeds were acquired but also on how the fiat is expected to be spent. This is super valuable information for understanding how the ecosystem is working and potential directions of expansion (ref. Paulo’s Nervous System Lab). Needless to say it will take some resources to collect and make this “warm data” useful.

More ideas please!


I like your thinking! In this Discourse topic I am working on more ideas: Reversing inequality for an equitable future

I’m excited to co-create together :slight_smile:


Thanks for both of your posts, Chuck. I fully agree that creating healthy value flows from fiat into the Seeds ecosystem is the most important topic for SEEDS. Unless we get this right, all current and future proposals become a moot point.

I am meant to set up a working group on how corporates can be the injection point, but bandwidth just hasn’t allowed me to do so yet. Perhaps you’d like to dig into this concept a little further?

Essentially, coming in November this year (COP26) is an agreement that business will fund the $6 trillion annual budget required to fund the SDGs (including ‘climate change’). The group to watch is The Glasgow Financial Alliance for Net Zero (GFANZ), chaired by Mark Carney, UN Special Envoy on Climate Action and Finance. They are basically waiting in the wings to make their announcement at or near the conclusion of COP26. The world will cheer their ‘heroic’ action and will jump on board their proposal. Rest assured, their proposal is anything but addressing what needs to be addressed.

This is where we have a unique opportunity to show corporates that the additional taxes and levies they will be responsible for have zero transparency. In other words, the world’s largest companies will be asked to pay $6t in additional taxes and no one will know where or how that money is spent.

Our counter is to say spend the money on Seeds projects, and we will provide full transparency and help you meet/exceed your ESG commitments.

Seeds then becomes a ‘filter’ or ‘membrane’ for fiat. Corporates pay into something like your proposed charity and these funds are then converted into Seeds and used to incentivise the projects which people are already passionate about. The bit that we add is the value created in terms of ESG reporting requirements. The projects were going to happen anyway. We’re just saying that corporates can now get benefit from the work being done AND they must pay for that privilege. They either pay their governments or they pay the Seeds charity. The decision has already been made that corporates are responsible.

I know this may sound naive, but I do believe this is the way to go. I’ve recorded two brief videos to explain all of this, but it needs someone like you to develop the ideas further. Are you up for it?

A Breakdown of the $6 Trillion Budget:

How to Handle the Governance of ESG Reporting:


Thanks for the post. As is the case for many things, SEEDS is in a bootstrap process and it requires energy inputs (fiat, time, ideas, engagement, passion, etc). The destination “equilibrium” post GoLive is designed with the Harvest Protocol to flow the net new Seeds being created directly to “activities” generating positive regenerative impacts. These are both projects being designed and implemented by local communities, as well as active participants in circular SEEDS economic activity. There are many questions related to governance, metrics, and effective due diligence to be worked on and improved as the SEEDS ecosystem grows. There are also questions about scale, and how many new Seeds will be created, while keeping attention on the “stability” of the Seeds token. It’ll be a fun journey, and there will be a LOT of excellent ideas making the SEEDS ecosystem more reliable and more effective at creating impactful change for communities and the planet.

During the bootstrap phase, there is a need for both development and growth. To build SEEDS and support growing adoption and marketplaces becoming circular economies interior to SEEDS, there needs to be two things: [1] enough resources to build this, and [2] enough Seeds in the world to see it actually working. The milestone sales have injected about 79m Seeds into the ecosystem, about 58m of those sold primarily to small investors (and some larger), and the remaining 21m still in the Hypha Treasury. The fiat-equivalent proceeds of those sold so far have been used by Hypha to fund the development of the whole project (and Hypha has decided in a semi-decentralized way how to do that). As you know, there are proposals for a new shared distribution for the remaining two milestone payment (about 79m more Seeds). The fiat-equivalent proceeds from selling these Seeds would be shared among the various organizations (DHOs) helping to build and grow SEEDS, not just Hypha anymore.

There have also been about 70m Seeds injected into the ecosystem so far based upon Campaign proposals. These Seeds have gone to many different projects over the past year, via the existing Citizen voting process. Whether these Seeds are in good places and doing good things (for the growth of the ecosystem) is a subject of continued conversation. The goal, of course, is that all of these Seeds out in the world would be demonstrating increasing economic velocity interior to the SEEDS ecosystem. As the SEEDS ecosystem grows, then the value of the whole network grows, and the perceived and actual “exchange rate” with fiat (like USD) will continue to rise. This anticipated growth in the USD value of SEEDS is related to how the SEEDS ecosystem is using those Seeds, the more users and the more circulation velocity, the stronger the ecosystem and the closer we are to GoLive and the Harvest Protocols which will support the “stable” phase in the value of Seeds. The “stability” is a bit of an illusion and it’s really more of an “agreement” among all in SEEDS that we believe the number of new Seeds being issued is appropriately-sized, and we’re happy they are being distributed in a focused way to create large regenerative impact.

BUT, the communication of the needs and intentions of the current bootstrap phase need to be better. Contributing resources (fiat, time, ideas, engagement, passion, etc) is the way we grow the SEEDS ecosystem toward the shared and continually-evolving vision. Fiat injections going to purchase milestone Seeds support the broad development efforts. Fiat injections buying Seeds from a local community that received Campaign Seeds supports the project they are doing on the ground. If their project is genuinely able to build growing circular economies using SEEDS, then that fiat is well spent from the perspective of building SEEDS. But, if all the Seeds were sold from a project, then the Seeds are no longer there, and clearly they aren’t able to build a growing local circular economy using Seeds.

Injecting fiat and buying Seeds from someone who bought them at a lower price is a grey area in my mind. I love the idea that people can buy Seeds at some point (which helps the ecosystem, kind of like a loan) and then sell them at some point in the future when they need the fiat back. This is both an investment idea mixed with support for SEEDS for a period of time, and the SEEDS ecosystem benefits from the injection of fiat during that period of time. The issue during this bootstrap phase is that when they want to sell their Seeds, they are basically in competition with the rest of the SEEDS ecosystem that is needing to receive new injections of fiat for development and projects. This is what is currently causing the exchange rate on Uniswap to be so much lower than the current Hypha Benchmark Exchange Rate (used on Passport, Light Wallet, SEEDS :: Buy Seeds, and other places).

People will want or need to sell Seeds for various reasons at various times, and we are a complex ecosystem. We are in this together (not only during the bootstrap phase, but forever).

To grow in a healthy and cooperative manner, we need new people joining and bringing their resources. This needs to continue to get SEEDS up to a critical mass of people and economic activity to demonstrate the capacity for this experiment to bring people together and generate true and meaningful impact. So, we need LOTS of people joining, and many of them will be bringing their fiat as part of their resources. This new fiat will flow through the ecosystem as they buy Seeds from different places, and that new person will then use Seeds, which increases the velocity of economic activity, and the Harvest Protocol will create new Seeds and distribute them widely for increasingly positive effect. That’s where we are all going. That’s why SEEDS is being created.

So, there are three big questions:

[A] How to best deploy the “working capital” coming from the sale of the Milestone Seeds?
[B] How to best deploy Campaign Seeds to grow the Seeds circular economic activity?
[C] How to best inspire new people to join SEEDS and bring fiat and other resources?

There are lots of good explorations related to [A] already taking place. And, lots of amazing work by the whole community on [C], including MBC and Ambassador Academy, Samara, Renaissance Explorers, Communications & Design, dStudio and many more!

So, let me take a stab at what I would suggest is healthy for [B]. Let’s suppose there was a local community that had a positive project they wanted to do that would create wonderful regenerative impact. Naturally they would look for funding sources and tools to put it into action. Along the way, let’s say they learned about SEEDS. They would say WOW! If we could have SEEDS wallets for everyone in our community, then our project would really be much more effective and joyful (and we could avoid all sorts of transaction fees too). Our community and our project would thrive and prosper.
Our ability to succeed would really be improved if we all used Seeds! So, let’s decide to implement our project using the SEEDS tools. They may want to reach out to the SEEDS ecosystem and write a story about how amazing their project is going, and how they’ve been able to build a thriving local economy using the SEEDS tools. Everyone would realize that their project was an ideal pilot success story for how to use SEEDS, and this could become a template for lots of other successful projects around the world. Lovely picture.

You probably noticed that I didn’t say anything about how they got the Seeds into their wallets, which is needed for their circular economy using Seeds. The answer is it doesn’t really matter. They might have gotten them as a Campaign gift, or they may have bought them, or someone might have donated them. The key point is that the Seeds are critically important to stay in their local economy for the system to be able to be sustainable and work.

So, for me, the ideal Campaign at this point is one that has already secured sufficient funding resources to implement their project. They know what they want to do, they have the resources, and they are ready to go, looking for the right implementation tools. The SEEDS ecosystem then gives them the gift of all the technology and support, as well as a Campaign pool of Seeds so their local economy has enough to circulate successfully.

I realize that most Campaigns do not meet my “ideal” outline above. Many are a hybrid with an element of Movement Building, and Ambassadors, and Pilots, etc. These have some expectation that there will be a need to sell Seeds (either sooner or later) for fiat. Thus, this portion of Seeds needing to be sold are serving a similar purpose as the Milestone Seeds, i.e. for “working capital”. But, there is a completely different governance and management process. And thus Campaign Seeds are competing with the sale of Milestone Seeds.

So, back to the core question in this thread. Any process that brings more injections of fiat into the whole ecosystem is good, and it’s even more important during the bootstrap phase. Having a SEEDS Charitable Foundation may be a good model for fiat deployment. Lots of possibilities and lots more to think about as we grow together.

One idea I can throw into the mix is this:

Campaigns could directly ask for two different types of Seeds: [1] those that are going to be shared widely in their community as part of the direct project purpose, and [2] Seeds for “working capital” funding for operations to run the project. These category [2] Seeds could be required to be combined with the aggregate Milestone selling pool, and proceeds would be made available as the Seeds are globally sold. This way the selling of these Seeds is a cooperative process among the whole ecosystem, not competitive. There would be a need for an element of patience while these Seeds are sold. Many details to think about further with this idea.


We could take a leaf from Democracy Earth/Proof of Humanity/$UBI and set up an ‘Earth Vault’ for people with large holdings of DAI/ETH/BTC. It would create demand for pSEEDS at least for people who do not want to be exposed to the liquidity issues within SEEDS but want to contribute positively to supporting climate goals. Democracy Earth


Some more thoughts here:

Feel free to comment here or directly on the Google doc.

I love the idea of campaigns asking for two budgets: one budget of Seeds for sharing widely within the community as part of a SEEDS regenerative project, and one budget for fiat working capital to bootstrap the SEEDS economy around that regenerative project. But why have the working capital budget denominated in Seeds? Why not just state what the fiat budget is, in local and/or international fiat currency, and ask for that to be sent direct rather than in Seeds which then have to be sold into fiat in ways that might undermine Hypha sales of Seeds before Go Live? Why not have the SEEDS Charitable Foundation, or something similar, make grants of fiat working capital direct to campaigns that pass the campaign proposal voting process? Donors to the Foundation could be rewarded in Seeds (and/or increased Contribution Score) for their contributions to the Foundation’s working capital fund.

I just don’t understand why Seeds has to be the currency that underlies all the financial transfers that might need to take place in order to grow the SEEDS ecosystem. Even the bioregional DHOs that will eventually be set up may have to create their own local currency tokens to complement Seeds in order to comply with local financial regulations regarding conversions from cryptocurrencies to local fiat (see the Kenyan situation and how Grassroots Economics have to keep their community currency tokens walled off from local fiat to avoid upsetting the Bank of Kenya). Indeed, a rich and diverse arrangement of currencies within an ecosystem is to be desired, as Bernard Lietaer pointed out (which is why he criticised the way the Euro was created, as it completely replaced a diverse range of national currencies rather than complementing them).

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Thanks Andy. The key question to the above topic is where does the flow of fiat currency come from? This is a bootstrap journey, and the establishment of a well funded SEEDS Charitable Foundation would accelerate the bootstrap substantially. There are many other possible designs. The intention of the collaborative Seeds sales contract here (SEEDS :: Buy Seeds) is serving exactly the same purpose. There are a lot of design conversations taking place in many, many, wonderful groups in the SEEDS ecosystem. Collectively the emergence of our the creation from the future is each day becoming a little more visible. The bootstrap journey does require fiat. So, we should collective continue to offer attention to the question: where does the flow of fiat come from?

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I would propose to make an exploration group out of this topic :slight_smile:
Here one way we could consider, as a fiat injection system:


Love it. an ambitious yet brilliant idea.